Sabotaj incredibil la Bruxelles. România, victima MERCENARILOR AUTOHTONI şi a mai-marilor europeni. INTERVIU cu Norica Nicolai
România pare în ultimii ani o ţară incapabilă să-şi rezolve propriile probleme şi caută foarte des o rezolvare la liderii europenii, fie în Parlamentul European, fie în Comisia Europeană. Am vorbit cu Norica Nicolai, unul dintre cei mai vechi europarlamentari români şi unul dintre cei mai experimentaţi politicieni din ţara noastră, despre cât este adevăr şi cât manipulare în ştirile care ne vin de la Bruxelles. Am aflat astfel că România nu are o problemă de imagine ca ţară pentru că de obicei trimişii noştri sunt constructivi în dezbaterile de negocierile de la Bruxelles, dar şi faptul că anumiţi reprezentanţi ai României sunt folosiţi pentru a proteja interesele altor ţări.
Evenimentul zilei: Care este realitatea la Bruxelles? Cum este văzută România şi ce se întâmplă aici?
– Norica Nicolai: România nu are ca imagine o mare problemă pentru că de regulă noi ca ţară am fost constructivi în toate Consiliile Europene şi în Parlamentul European. Noi nu am avut ostilităţi şi am găsit pe marile dosare soluţii de negociere. Uneori nu s-a putut din cauza intereselor europene, de fapt a unui pol dur al Uniunii Europene cum sunt Germania şi Franţa care prin sateliţi reuşesc tot timpul să îşi impună agenda. Când spun sateliţi mă refer la Belgia, Olanda şi uneori Luxemburgul pentru că domnul Junker are o lungă tradiţie politică acolo.
Totuşi anumite problemne sunt aduse în discuţie de europarlamentari români…
Doar o parte din europarlamentarii români aduc în dezbatere chestiuni care, sigur, sunt relevante în plan intern, dar nu au o foarte mare semnificaţie în plan extern. Dar dacă poţi să ţii o ţară cumva în corzi, este bine să o faci din punctul de vedere al unor lideri europeni.
– Să înţeleg că ei se folosesc de aceşti europarlamentari români?
– Categoric.
– Asta înseamnă că ne fac mai mult rău decât bine?
– Bineînţeles. Absolut. Pentru că ce se întâmplă în Justiţia din România se întâmplă în toată Uniunea Europeană. Sunt ţări cu mult mai multe condamnări al CEDO ca şi noi, cu mari probleme în interior.
„În Franţa şi Belgia sunt mari scandaluri pe Justiţie”
– Puteţi să îmi daţi exemple?
– De pildă ţările Baltice. Au avut foarte multe condamnări la CEDO pentru nerespectarea drepturilor omului. În Franţa şi în Belgia sunt scandaluri pe Justiţiei, dar nimeni nu duce scandalul mai mult decât subiectul la momentul respectiv. Preferăm marea majoritate ca problematica de conflict între Putere şi Opoziţie sau problemele interne să le rezolve în plan intern şi să nu le aducă la Bruxelles. La noi este un dat comportamental. Cred că cel puţin în ultimii 20 de ani, dar dacă te uiţi în istorie cam aşa am făcut, am avut tendinţa să ne ducem şi să ne plângem şi să găsim soluţii de arbitraj în altă parte. Asta încearcă unii dintre colegii noştri, să pună Uniunea Europeană într-o poziţie de arbitru al situaţiei din România, ceea ce ne crează un foarte mare dezavantaj. După părerea mea, un dublu dezavantaj. Unul poate fi imaginea, dar ceea ce după părerea mea e mai grav, îţi crează o vulnerabilitate şi îţi influenţează capacitatea de negociere. Pentru că dacă tu mergi acum şi spui „Nu sunt de acord să introduceţi condiţionalităţi peste Tratatul de la Lisabona pentru accesarea fondurilor europene” – o condiţionalitate era statul de drept – tu începi să ai probleme în credibilitate. Pentru că imediat ţi se dă replica: „Voi vorbiţi? Voi care sunteţi sub un mecanism de monitorizare? Voi care aveţi un nivel de corupţie ridicat”. Asta îţi crează un dezavantaj în foarte multe dosare.
Iohannis a avut o singură discuţie cu europarlamentarii români
-Evenimentul zilei: Dar dumneavoastră, ca şi europarlamentari români, aveţi discuţii ca grup care reprezintă România? Mă gândesc la şedinţe periodice în care să vă întâlniţi şi să vă puneţi de acord asupra un poziţii comune prin care să ajutaţi ţara.
– Norica Nicolai: Nu, nu avem aşa ceva. Grupul român este foarte divizat. Noi cooperăm cu PSD-ul în momentul de faţă pentru că suntem în Coaliţie şi este firesc să colaborăm pe marile dosare. Dar o conlucrare permanentă între europarlamentarii români după părerea mea nu există.
– Dar preşedintele s-a întâlnit vreodată cu toţi europarlamentarii români?
– Da, o singură dată. Aproape toţi, acu vreo 2 ani, au lipsit câţiva.
– Care a fost mesajul?
– Să comunicăm să lucrăm pentru binele României. Feelingul meu a fost a fost că a vrut să bifeze o întâlnire şi atâta.
– Dar în grupurile altor ţări există?
– Da. Pot să vă dau câteva exemple. Germania, de pildă. Sunt risipiţi în toate grupurile politice în Parlamentul European, dar când sunt dosare mari care antamează interesul german toată lumea votează la fel, inclusiv liberalii noştri (grupul ALDE – n.r.). Deşi ideea noastră poate e diferită de ceea ce vor ei, ei au întotdeauna opinia care consolidează interesul lor naţional.
„Nu am avut niciodată o poziţie comună în interesul ţării”
– În cazul românilor a fost vreodată un astfel de vot?
– Nu. Din 2009, de când sunt eu europarlamentar, noi nu am avut niciodată o poziţie comună în interesul ţării. Cu excepţia comunicării pe care o avem prin Misiunea României la Bruxelles cu ţara, în rest nu avem o formulă instituţionalizată. Şi au tot încercat miniştrii de externe să ne aducă pe toţi la masă, să discutăm, să încercăm să găsim soluţii de vot în bloc.
– Dar care sunt cei care se opun?
– În general cei care sunt membri în grupul PPE pentru că ei au şi o poziţie destul de delicată, fiind un grup majoritar. Într-un grup majoritar foarte puternic, atunci când ai o cifră mică, şase oameni, tu nu contezi. Îţi dau nişte posturi pe prima negociere, dar după aceea pe dosarele mari tu nu ai nicio relevanţă. Pe când într-un grup mai mic, de pildă cum sunt eu în ALDE, pot bloca. Avem discuţii destul de dificile. Pot să îţi dau un exemplu din Comisia de pescuit. Noi am blocat pescuitul electric, cu mijloace electrice. Am blocat o rezoluţie în Parlament, am reuşit, am câştigat-o. Era în special împotriva Olandei pentru că ea a profitat de o prevedere din acordul de afaceri maritime care îţi dădea voie să foloseşti 5% pentru cercetare în pescuitul electric, dar ei foloseau pe toată flota şi creau un dezavantaj Franţei Marii Britanii şi Spaniei, care sunt relevante în materie de pescuit. Pentru că eu pierdut, a venit Guvernul belgian, care e liberal, şi au încercat să obţină ei o astfel de facilitate, pe căi ocolite, în aşa fel încât să profite şi celorlalţi. Dar le-am spus direct în grupul ALDE că nu respect votul Parlamentului European şi nu respect nişte principii. Linia de vot a noastră a fost să votăm împotriva acelei rezoluţii, am votat contra şi noi am câştigat. Dar asta nu înseamnă că cineva trebuie să se supere. Sunt chestiuni de principiu şi chestiuni de interes.
Există o tendinţă de federalizare a Europei
– Apropo de Olanda, care este principalul oponent al intrării noastre în Spaţiul Schengen. Se schimbă ceva? Este vreo speranţă?
– Nu, din păcate. Discuţia a fost de curând, când Mark Rutte (premierul Olandei – n.r.) a venit în Parlament şi mulţi dintre noi, din toate grupurile, l-am întrebat de ce Olanda blochează în continuare, iar el ne-a spus că este vorba de MCV. El constituie un argument politic în momentul de faţă. El nu are niciun fel de legătură cu aquiul Shenghen care specificat în Tratat şi care este foarte clar: nu se introduce condiţionalităţi politice, ci un aqui tehnic. În momentul în care am convenit că mi-am îndeplinit aqui-ul trebuie să fiu acceptat. Dar ţările în ultima vreme, dintr-o tendinţă spre federalism, spre mai multă integrare, s-a dorit mai multă decizie la Bruxelles, decât în statele membre. În condiţiile acestea dreptul european devine uşor, uşor hegemonic şi încearcă să impună. Cum este şi mecanismul de relocare a imigranţilor, nu are suport în Tratat. Deci atitudinea unor state membre este peste Tratat.
– România are vreo soluţie în aceste condiţii?
– România poate să fie mult mai activă şi mai vocală în Consiliile Europene şi are, împreună cu alţii, majoritate de blocaj. Cum am făcut noi de curând, nu am dat mandate de negociere, ca să blocăm detaşarea pe transport.
„MCV-ul este un argument pentru unii să îşi rezolve interesele”
Evenimentul zilei: Aş vrea să vorbim despre Mecanismul de Cooperare şi Verificare (MCV). Senzaţia este că se permanentizează, a început să ni se pară normal…
„A vrut să bifeze o întâlnire şi atât”
– Norica Nicolai: Da, a devenit un gen de obişnuinţă. Noi l-am prins în protocolul de aderare pentru Mecanismul nu funcţionează nicăieri în Uniunea Europeană, în afară de noi şi bulgari. El a fost prevăzut pentru o perioadă de patru ani, dar din păcate interesele politice şi de grup l-au perpetuat. Nu mai are nicio raţiune, condiţiile au fost îndeplinite de mult, dar în fiecare raport se mai inventează o condiţionalitate. A devenit un fel de repetabilă povară care nu a adus nimic pozitiv, nici în Justiţie, dar este un argument pentru unii să îşi rezolve interesele.
– Puteţi să daţi exemple?
– De pildă, Olanda.
„Noi suntem cei din spatele clasei care îşi ţin batistuţa şi unghiile pe bancă”
– Apropo de Olanda. Este una din ţările care spune, prin ambasada de al Bucureşti, că DNA este eficient în lupta anticorupţie, dar în urmă cu câteva luni premierul lor a spus că România nu poate fi primită în Schengen pentru că avem probleme corupţia.
Se bat cap în cap ideile…
– Desigur. După părerea mea domnul Rutte are o cu totul altă agendă. Foloseşte MCV-ul ca un pretext pentru că dacă susţine aceste mecanism şi inclusiv instituţiile care îl implementează în România, ar fi trebuit să aibă o evaluare de etapă. Dacă au fost performante, de ce nu s-a redus nivelul de corupţie. Noi suntem cei din spatele clasei care îşi ţin batistuţa şi unghiile pe bancă. Este o formulă de ridicat poalele în cap dincolo de ţara ta.
– Mai există undeva un astfel de DNA?
– Nu, nu există, pentru că parchetele specializate au fost apanajul statelor totalitate, rusii le-au inventat.
Noi nu ne comportăm ca o ţară membră e UE
– Iohannis este cel care reprezintă statul român la Consiliile Europene, că tot am vorbit de premierul Olandei. El a luat vreodată atitudine, din cunoştinţele dumneavoastră, faţă de aceste declaraţii?
– Nu aş putea să spun dacă a luat vreodată atitudine, deşi preşedintele ar trebui să ne reprezinte ca ţară. Eu nu am auzit vreodată ca preşedintele să fii luat atitudine, dar îl voi întreba pe domnul Rutte, când ne vom vedea la un consiliu liberal, dacă domnul Iohannis i-a cerut vreodată explicaţii pentru declaraţiile sale. Problema noastră este că noi nu ne comportăm ca o ţară membră. Noi parcă suntem copiii ăia care stau şi aşteaptă să le deschidă unul uşa să nu facă vreo prostie. Noi suntem acolo, avem interese ca şi ceilalţi şi trebuie să ni le promovăm. Uniunea Europeană nu e un proiect care ţine de amiciţie.
„Stalin poate fi fericit pentru că lupta de clasă a reuşit”
– Evenimentul zilei: Cum vă explicaţi protestele din ultimii ani?
– Norica Nicolai: Este o stare de radicalizare în societatea românească. Nu mai există argumente. Stalin poate fi foarte fericit acolo unde e pentru că lupta de clasă a reuşit. În formula luptei de clasă nimeni nu mai asculta pe nimeni. Erau doar unii care permanent aveau dreptate. Acolo se duce societatea românească. Oamenii îşi refuză posibilitatea de a gândi.
Multinaţionalele, adversarele guvernelor care îşi crează propria realitate
– Aveţi senzaţia că au fost incitaţi sau că există un program să se comporte aşa?
– Eu un proiect care este vizibil de foarte mulţi ani, care în România nu a fost foarte bine analizat. În momentul de faţă, democraţia de tip tradiţional, cea clasică, începe încet, încet să fie pusă sub semnul întrebării ca sistem politic. De la Max Weber încoace, cel cu societatea deschisă, se caută forma de guvernanţă. Într-o societate globalizată unde marele interese este reprezentat de bani, de capacitatea de a mobilize sume importante şi de a avea profituri importante, nu mai e nevoie de guverne pentru că multinaţionalele au, în multe cazuri, bugetele cât un stat. El tind să îşi autoregleze realitatea. Şi realitatea lor înseamnă profitul şi nimic altceva. Nu au niciun fel de obsesii care să ţină de reglementare social, de statut, de educaţie.
– De aici vine şi tendinţa aceasta de divizare socială?
– Este un program de divizare socială şi care, în ultimii 20-30 de ani, mai puţin la noi… În Statele Unite, de pildă, formulele de societate civilă, care în realitate sunt intens politizate. Numai că oamenii nu înţeleg acest lucru, că ei fac un anume tip de politică fără afiliere ideologică la un partid. Le-au creat o formulă de îndreptăţire, se consider singurii depozitari ai adevărului despre realitate şi adevărul lor nu se negociază. Dacă discuţi cu ei constaţi că refuză dialogul şi refuză gândirea. Orice i-ai spune este pierdere de vreme. În plus au fost mişcările inspirate în Europa de Hasel, de protestele de indignare. Este foarte bine să te indignezi, dar problema mea este să nu rămâi aşa, ci să cauţi soluţii. Să îţi rezolvi problema de indignare pentru că ai şi tu o problemă internă pe care nu o conştientizezi. Orice radicalizare de tipul ăsta duce la derapaj comportamental, social.
„Se încearcă o formulă de disoluţie a statelor”
– În concluzie acest program este promovat doar din interese economice?
– După părerea mea, considerentele economice sunt sigur un argument forte, dar sunt şi considerente politice. Unii vor să fie mai puternici decât statele. Se încearcă o formulă de disoluţie a statelor, dar care cu siguranţă nu va merge pentru că pregăteşti haosul şi haosul este foarte riscant. Naşte dictaturi, naşte conflict, naşte violenţă.
– Aţi spus că până acum în România acest program nu s-a simţit atât de bine. Care este explicaţia?
– Programul este început. Sunt oameni care sunt dependenţi ca venituri şi ca obsesie de imagine de aceste formule de revoltă şi din ce în ce mai mult pentru o societate care nu are un dat naţional foarte puternic, avem doar 100 de ani şi suntem stat tânăr, este foarte periculos. Nu este atât de periculos pentru statele vechi. Avem exemplu Franţei care a avut o mişcare asemănătoare la finalul anilor 60. Acum, comunicarea ajută tipul acesta de mişcări.
– Problema imigranţilor este provocată de o nevoie de forţă de muncă sau sunt alte interese?
– Sunt două argumente. Nevoia de forţă de muncă este evidentă în toată Uniunea Europeană pentru că populaţia este îmbătrânită. În urmă cu câţiva ani am văzut nişte studii, în Germania de pildă despre nevoia de forţă de muncă în anumite domenii. Germania are nevoie să îşi profesionalizaze oameni, dar într-un ritm lent de creştere a populaţiei trebuie să aducă din afară.
„Europa a greşit fundamental”
– Credeţi că din acest motiv au fost atât de permisivi?
– Sigur şi formula foarte generoasă a drepturilor omului. Nu au făcut niciun fel de distincţie între migraţia economică şi cea securitară. Europa a greşit fundamental aici pentru că nu a incitat nici politicile de natalitate, iar fluxurile acestea de migraţie sunt fluxuri de risc securitar. Luăm primăvara arabă. Că lucrurile au început de acolo. Acele dictaturi din nordul Africii erau o plasă de securitate pentru imigraţie. Dar la Bruxelles era aşa o exuberanţă de parcă eram Vivaldi.
– Da, dar este vorba de nişte lideri care conduc o lume.
– Există o lipsă de înţelegere clară a modelelor cultural. După părerea mea tendinţa generală de globalizare este o tendinţă de uniformizare a standardelor comportamentale, a nivelului de educaţie şi lumea se raportează la acest tip de standarde. Dacă nu ai un Iphone şi dacă nu eşti pe Facebook, nu exişti. Dacă cunoştinţele tale sunt destul de precare, dar nu vrei să accepţi lucrul acesta atunci nu ai niciun motiv să te întrebi. Problema pentru noi este că Uniunea Europeană este totuşi un spaţiu cultural. De aceea şi integrarea va merge foarte greu. Adică nu văd o formulă federală în Uniunea Europeană. Toţi avem un dat istoric, avem o cultură solidă. Noi nu suntem Statele Unite. Nu am venit aici pentru că era un pământ liber şi aveam o oportunitate de creaţie. Din păcate americanii care, după părerea mea, au abordat întotdeauna în raport doar de interesul lor limitat toate conflictele regionale, nu au înţeles foarte clar care este dat-ul unui popor. Cât au avut de profitat a fost OK, după care le-au abandonat. A se vedea Irak, a se vedea Afganistan.
– Credeţi că o să intrăm şi noi pe lista aceasta de teritoriu abandonat?
– Nu, pentru noi, de bine de rău, putem ţine de teritoriu şi nu suntem nici foarte interesanţi pentru destabilizare faţă de alte zone. Resursele noastre sunt modice. Ce e în Marea Neagră, cred că nu vom exploata foarte curând datorită situaţiei securitare cu Rusia şi Turcia şi atunci noi nu suntem nici Irak-ul cu resurse immense de petrol, nici Libia, nici Siria. Sărăcia ne salvează.
sursa: evz
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